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Ellen White’s Burial

November 12, 2006

The anti-Ellen White site http://www.ellenwhite.org/ has a post titled “The White Obelisk” which goes to some length to show that the grave marker (pictured above) on the grave of Ellen and James White is a satanic symbol. I’m not going to bother commenting about that issue, suffice to say that while it may be “quite unsettling” for the site’s authors “that a symbol of the Egyptian Sun god appears on the burial site of James and Ellen White”, it doesn’t worry me in the slightest.However, in the first footnote to that page, the authors make the following statement:

Mrs. White’s funeral was on July 24, 1915, the same date that the photograph was taken. However, according to the White Estate, she was not interred until 33 days later. On March 22, 1999, William Fagal of the Ellen G. White Estate Branch Office at Andrews University, emailed D. Fischer: “Her funeral took place on Sabbath, July 24, 1915. She was not actually interred, however, until Thursday, August 26.”

This claim intrigues me.

The Events Surrounding White’s Death & Burial:
On March 3, 1915, White had her last vision. Her words focussed on the young people of the church: “I do not expect to live long. My work is nearly done. Tell our young people that I want my words to encourage them in that manner of life that will be most attractive to the heavenly intelligences, and that their influence upon others may be most enobling.”
At 3.40pm on July 16, 1915 she passed away. Her son, Willie White later described the experience: “It was like the burning out of a candle, so quiet.”

A funeral service was held at her home: Elmshaven in California on July 18.
White’s body then travelled by train to Richmond where a camp-meeting was taking place, and a second service held.

Again travelling by train, White’s body was taken to Battle Creek, Michigan, where, on Sabbath morning, July 24, White lay in state in the Battle Creek Tabernacle for two hours from eight til ten. About 2,000 people filed past as an honour guard of six ministers alternated in pairs every twenty minutes and stood, one at the head of the casket and one at the foot.

White’s third and final funeral service was held in the Battle Creek Tabernacle on July 24 with about 4,500 people in attendance–1,000 more than Battle Creek Tabernacle could hold.

Following the Tabernacle service White’s body was buried next to her husband James in Oak Hill cemetery.

There seems to be no evidence to support the suggestion that White’s interment (burial) took place other than on the same day as her funeral. Furthermore, there seems to be no reason for such a situation to occur.

Questions:

  1. Does this email from William Fagel actually exist? (If it does not, will the authors of the ellenwhite.org site remove the offending staement?–Or offer alternative evidence to support their claim?)
  2. If it does, was Fagel correct in his statement that White was not actually “interred” until August 26?
  3. If White’s interment did not actually take place until August 26, what were the reasons?
  4. Finally, while I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories, (assuming the above is true) has the Ellen White Estate engaged in some sort of cover-up about the events surrounding the burial of Ellen White?
  5. References:
    Herbert E. Douglass, Messenger of the Lord, Boise: Pacific Press, 1998.

    Arthur L. White, Ellen G. White: The Later Elmshaven Years 1905-1915, Washington DC: Review and Herald, 1982.

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117 comments

  1. This whole thing is really strange. I honestly don’t know what to say. It’s just weird.


    • Hello, as the question arises about sister Ellen White’s (and her husband’s) funeral being on the sabbath. One should read in Numbers chapter#19. It talks about the dead and the Temple of God. How to maintain it’s(Temple)purity you need to keep them apart. If I remember right, jesus’s body was not taken to the Temple for a viewing, also jesus was not buried on the sabbath, they place his body in a crypt before the sabath, so it could be not only kept safe, but buried after the sabbbath. Remember the ten commandments and what it said about the sabbath. The idea of views is in Christian, Jewish, traditions, but the purity of the Temple and the keep of the sabbath is more something more of tradition and commandment of God than of Men.


    • To further show how ludicrous the whole idea is note the obelisk over the grave of Uncas a Pequot chief: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncas


  2. First of all, I’m surprised that they did her funeral on Sabbath – it seems a little Un-Ellen to me.

    Second, if they did not bury her on the day of her (third) funeral a reasonable explanation would seem to be as follows: it was Sabbath – no work (the burial of a heavy coffin) on Sabbath is allowed under the Adventist decree.


    • >no work (the burial of a heavy coffin) on Sabbath is allowed under the Adventist decree.

      1) It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

      2) There’s no such thing as an “Adventist decree” with respect to the Sabbath.


      • If it would be considered “good” to bury someone on the Sabbath, then why did Jesus not have his body prepared for burial until after the Sabbath? The women didn’t do any work on preparing the body after the sun set on Friday, EVEN for Jesus.


      • >then why did Jesus not have his body prepared for burial until after the Sabbath?

        Jesus had nothing to do or say about His body after He died.


  3. An interesting thought Christine. There’s no doubt her funeral was on a Sabbath–in fact a number of the SDA Churches in the area cancelled their services so that members could attend the funeral.
    I’m not sure that your explanation is entirely satisfactory–the coffin was definitely transported to the gravesite (pics exist) on the 24th. I assume that the grave was already dug, therefore any “work” left would have involved simply filling in the hole–and this could easily have been left until after Sabbath if it was a concern.
    I’m not sure when the practice of not holding funerals on Sabbath entered the church–anyone have any ideas? Was Ellen White just a special case or were SDAs commonly buried on the Sabbath in the early 20thC?
    Thanks for dropping by & commenting.


  4. I am not surprised that Adventists in 1915 had no problem with a funeral on Sabbath. The idea that it is somehow wrong to hold a funeral on Sabbath is simply another example of so-called “historic Adventism” that is really a late invention, often the result of the incursions of Fundamentalsim on Adventist faith in the 1920s and 1930s.


  5. Thanks for the thought Monte. Interestingly, when I rechecked my Minister’s Manual I found no mention of abstaining from funerals on the Sabbath (nor weddings for that matter)–yet I’m sure I’ve read guidelines somewhere. Perhaps my browse was too quick?
    It would be interesting to explore this a little further–exactly when did this practice cease (or at the very least became less common, it is still practiced sometimes ie see the tragic story here.) A quick websearch led me to the West Indian Union Visitor (first quarter, 2006) which contains an article on Sabbath funerals on p13 (in the magazine, p12 in the .pdf) here which points out that:

    “Generally speaking, the Seventh-day Adventist Church has refrained from Sabbath funeral services, given the activities associated with the same and the need to engage persons in some physical activities such as the interment of the body of the deceased. However, since the funeral service itself is a religious one, it is not in violation of the Sabbath. According to Guidelines for Sabbath Observance,” the Biblical Research Institute states that when it is necessary to conduct funerals on the Sabbath, “arrangements should be made in advance with morticians and cemetery employees to perform their routine tasks for the deceased in advance of the Sabbath day, thus reducing the labor and commotion on the Sabbath. In some instances a memorial service could be held on the Sabbath, and interment takes place later.”

    The article also reminded me that James White’s funeral also occurred on a Sabbath. A coincidence or planning to maximize attendence?
    There is a page on the Korean Ellen G. White Research Centre: which has a copy of a letter (in English) from Arthur L. White to a pastor in the Netherlands who was making inquiries on the subject. It points out that:

    Several weeks ago we received from you an inquiry concerning Sister White’s attitude toward funerals on the Sabbath, and the fact that Elder James White’s funeral was held on the Sabbath and that her funeral was held on the Sabbath. You tell us that a knowledge of these facts has led to some concern among some of our believers there in the Netherlands. I am sorry to learn this. I think that this is a matter which our believers will have to study from the standpoint of principles involved. A funeral is a service of the church, and it has never been considered by Seventh-day Adventists to be out of place to conduct such a service on the sabbath day.
    It is only in recent years that funerals have become such involved affairs, calling for many lines of activity and business contacts. It is under these circumstances that the church has been counseling that it is advisable to hold a funeral on some other day than the Sabbath.

    Apologies for the length, this comment has taken on a life of its own!


  6. Several years ago (very early on in my ministry)when I first “discovered” that James White was buried on a Sabbath afternoon, and that there were hundreds of people in attendance, I was more relieved than surprised. I was considered “liberal” by some because I had encouraged members of my congregation to attend a family funeral held on a Sabbath morning by “non-SDA” relatives. When I read about James White’s Sabbath funeral, I thought perhaps our pioneers were “liberal” too!

    Perhaps we get so uptight about the “no work” on the Sabbath, that we also forget about “weeping with those who weep”?


    • Hey brother,

      Quick word of advise, whenever you’re in doubt about anything that you are doing, or feel overwhelmed by the pressures of a crowd, it is best to seek the “WWJD” (What would Jesus Do)solution to solve your problems. In the case that you reffered to about the funeral on the Sabbath, you did seek the “WWJD” solution, which gave you the understanding that you were not alone in your position, as James White was buried on the Sabbath, but unfortunately you seeked after the wrong “J”. See what Jesus would do on his funeral, not James White.


      • James couldn’t control or dictate the situation. He was the “guest of honor” as it were. I have looked at some 50 authors on the raising of Lazarus for a plagiarism study. Most, if not all, of the authors noted that Mary and Martha felt that if Jesus had been there then their brother would not have died. Its not like those who are burying anyone on the Sabbath are doing their own good pleasure. Also, it is quite fiting to have a funeral on the Sabbath in that we can note that the person being buried is resting from all their labors, just as Christ rested from his on the Sabbath after He died.


      • lets not base our views on what people did, people will make mistakes but the scripture will always stand. are we not taught to base our everything in life on deep study of scripture because this is Gods will?

        mathew 8:21
        Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”

        22 But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”


  7. Hobbes, Check out my post about Ellen White’s funeral on my blog. I appreciate your pointing this out.


  8. Thanks for the info Michael–of course the big question is why was this done? It’s hard to believe there’s no written records on the issue. My question too–since the contemporary newspapers etc clearly refer to her burial on that day–was this non-burial carried out secretly? If so why? Was it really feared that her body would be dug up? What was done with the body in the mean-time?
    Michael’s post on the issue is at:
    http://adventisthistorian.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/11/the_burial_of_e.html


  9. I think that you raise interesting questions but that it will be impossible to know unless new primary sources surface. It is unfortunate that the cemetery nor the White Estate have any additional records and that those involved are not around to ask (alas the wonderful reason why I believe oral history is important). It is also important to recognize that there are two primary sources that are contradicting one another: one is published, the second unpublished. It seems plausible that perhaps her casket was lowered in the grave but for some unknown reason the burial was postponed. It does seem mysterious. I suppose the lack of evidence can also be taken as “proof” for a secret burial later, but even the statement by Edson White seems to indicate that there were several other Adventists who showed up on the scene when she actually was interred and who joined them in looking on. The way this is stated suggests to me that this was likely not a secret gathering.


    • i think that the preparations for the burial was already done before the Sabbath day and they did that so that the members could attend it: EGW is important to the members. and i think i have seen comments that little amount of dirt were put but it was a sabbath day so i think it’s the reason if in any case the postponing was true: they were concerned about the members.


      • The facts are that James White and James and Ellen White’s son were buried on the Sabbath. It is also a fact that Ellen White said that church members who criticized a man for burring his wife on the Sabbath were wrong for doing so. There are many other instances in our church’s history that show that early Adventists had no problem with burring people on the Sabbath. This is a new phenomenon that has developed along with a lot of other extreme beliefs that the pioneers of our church new nothing of.


  10. Hello I have a book “The Desire of Ages” By Ellen G. White. Pacific Press Publishing Association Mountain View, California Omana, Nebraska. Copyright, 1898, by Pacific Press Publishing Company Entered at Stationer’s Hall, London Copyright, 1940, by Pacific Press Publishing Association all rights reserved and it’s stamped by Pacific Press Pub. Assn. printed in USA. Is this a collictable Book. Please email back with comments.


    • Hi Lisa I just came across to your comment and i’m very interested in this book , if its original. because many of EGW writings has been autered and compiled and republished and i really need as many original as possible.
      Please let me know
      Franci
      francisouzastone@hotmail.com


      • You might try books.google.com to see what they have. I’ve never heard of Desire of Ages being “altered” in any shape, manner or form. The Great Controversy was fixed in a number of respects. The message has remained the same.


  11. Hi Lisa. In short, the answer is no. It’s not collectable & not worth any significant amount. There is a 1997 article by Merlin D. Bert, “Current Value and Rarity of SDA Materials” online at: http://www.asdal.org/action/fall97.html#SDA While it is 10 years old, it gives a very rough guide as to what is collectable and what is not. Basically unless it’s pre-1900 it’s not & not everything pre 1900 is collectable.


  12. These particular type of works need not be collected but but instead they should be read by as many people as possible.


  13. This is to verify that the http://www.ellenwhite.org website is very accurate in reporting my email message from William Fagal on March 22, 1999 as follows:

    “Her funeral took place on Sabbath, July 24, 1915. She was not actually interred, however, until Thursday, August 26. (How’s that for funeral trivia?) Yes, I know what you are wondering, but I don’t know why the interment was delayed so long.”

    I have the original email, from William Fagal, in my files. There has been speculation that the Adventist leaders were afraid that Dr. John Kellogg would exhume her body and perform some type of brain autopsy.

    Dennis Fischer, Director
    DENNIS FISCHER MINISTRIES
    “Online Chaplaincy and Mentoring Services”


  14. Hi Dennis, thanks for dropping by. Thanks for confirming that Fagel’s email is genuine. I’d encourage you to drop by Michael Campbell’s blog if you haven’t already done so. He continues a discussion of this topic there: http://adventisthistorian.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/11/the_burial_of_e.html


  15. In an email today from Elder William Fagal of the White Estate, he added some more information that may be of interest to many on this forum in regard to the interment of Ellen White:

    “The grave was open on that Sabbath afternoon when the casket was taken to the cemetery. I think there are eyewitness accounts that say it was lowered into the grave that afternoon and some dirt thrown in on it. But it was a Sabbath, and for that reason I would not be surprised if the grave was not actually closed at that time, but some dirt was symbolically thrown into the opening. There are cemetery records (I am told) to substantiate the holding of the casket in a vault until the date I gave you for the burial, and there are also written references to this in the White family…Yes, James White’s funeral also was on Sabbath, in the afternoon, and he was buried the same day.”

    Amazing information! The mourners at the graveside service were deceived into thinking Ellen White’s body was actually interred on the day of her third and final funeral. Earlier today I was interviewed on the TEST ALL THINGS radio program in the Greater Philadelphia area. The program’s primary focus was about Ellen White during this 15-minute radio interview. I answered probing questions about her plagiarism and also about things most people do not know about her.

    Dennis Fischer
    E-mail: dennisfischer@neb.rr.com


  16. There are a couple of early church founders that are buried under obilisks. Just the Loma Linda Univeristy digital archive…search with the word gravesites. It is pretty interesting. I wounder if there is a link with any of these people and Freemasonry?


  17. It would seem that there is no link between Freemasonry & an obelisk on a grave. According to the Association for Gravestone Studies (See, there’s an association for EVERYTHING!!):
    “The obelisk is, to quote McDowell and Meyer in The Revival Styles in American Memorial Art, one of the “most pervasive of all the revival forms” of cemetery art. There is hardly a cemetery founded in the 1840s and 50s without some form of Egyptian influence in the public buildings, gates, tomb art, etc. Napoleon’s 1798-99 Egyptian campaigns, the discoveries at the tombs of the Pharaohs, and our new Republic’s need to borrow the best of the ancient cultures (Greek revival, classic revival, the prominence of classical studies and dress, etc.) led to a resurgence of interest in the ancient Egyptian culture. Obelisks were considered to be tasteful, with pure uplifting lines, associated with ancient greatness, patriotic, able to be used in relatively small spaces, and, perhaps most importantly, obelisks were less costly than large and elaborate sculpted monuments. There were many cultural reasons for the revival styles of the nineteenth century. Freemasonry, while part of the overall cultural influence, was not responsible for the prevalence of obelisks. If you would like to read more about some of these styles, see The Egyptian Revival: Its Sources, Monuments and Meaning, 1808-1859, by Richard Carrott.” From: http://www.gravestonestudies.org/faq.htm#Symbolism%20on%20Gravestones


  18. I feel as though, Ms. White was a woman of God. It makes no difference what day and time she was laid to rest in the ground. Understanding our bibles, would make it plain that the dead know not anything. Satan brings death, by our choice in the garden with adam, but God is the author if life. Lets think and read on Ms. Whites life and testimony, not when , where and why she was buried the way and when she was.


  19. With all respect, this type of thinking is what produces what is called a “coverup”. No matter how “nice” of a reason we come up with for not looking at the truth…it is still not looking at the truth. We should be informed why she was buried exactly 33 days after her death. As Kennedy said, secrets are repugnant. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the current adventist logo is a pyramid with an all seeing eye. Check it out yourself at http://www.adventist.org. I wonder why nobody cares?


  20. I see no pyramid in our logo, even though I regret the change of logo. I hope someday the obelisk be removed from the burial site of sister Ellen.


  21. I too have been curious about the grave marker on the White family plot since there has been so much in print concerning the significance of the obelisk in recent years. I read through the comments to see what I might find to explain it. I found it. While I don’t think Ellen White would have chosen it in the light of it’s connection with a pagan/occult civilization, perhaps that wasn’t focused on then, or perhaps she had nothing to do prior to her death in the selection of an obelisk grave marker? What I do know, however, is that God used the willingness of Ellen White to enlighten those living during her time until now, with His last days message that no other church past or present has given to our world. A precious message that is as sure as the one that Jesus gave before the destruction of Jerusalem. That those who saw the sign might escape the terrible conflagration. We too have been given the preview. “Watch”, Jesus said…Ellen White was a faithful watchman(woman) on the wall, always giving the trumpet a certain sound!! We have a great cloud of witnesses that have gone before us, Ellen White being one of those. Thank God, thank God! Having come out of Babylon myself, I will be eternally grateful for the truth that I have been given, and life that I may see these things, that are written in the Bible, that she expanded on, come to pass.


  22. The URL http://www.ellenwhite.org has changed its name to http://www.EllenWhiteExposed.com after protest from the EG White Estate which URL is http://www.whiteestate.org. Since this is another attack ministry aimed at the church, I would take anything from that source (www.EllenWhiteExposed.com) with a very big pinch of salt.


  23. I am a sda man from Switzerland, and I’m very sorry to see ellen white chose to put a satanic monument on her grave. And I’m very sorry too to see most of other sda members chose the way of hypocrisy and lying by claiming there is no problem with God to put a satanic monument on the grave of Ellen White, who was supposed to be a HOLY EMBASSADOR of our HOLY CREATOR.
    I must tell you the truth: Ellen White is a great lyer, and she’s a false prophetess, like the bad pharisees in the time of Jesus, and like the baal worshippers in the time of Elijah; but this is the church I know which is the less far from the truth , for all other churches I know are much more far from the truth, and they are under the control of great liers too.
    The only thing to do, is to organize with the help of our LORD JESUS a great reformation among all TRUE christians who are seeking the real truth, and thus we could obey God and flee from Babylon the satanic city and its lies and hypocrisy and its satanic monuments on their graves.
    BY THE GRACE OF GOD, IT WILL HAPPEN VERY SOON, FOR GOD AND HIS TRUE SERVANTS HATES LIES, AND LOVES THE TRUTH, FOREVER…


    • I have studied the life and history of Ellen G White and have found that the obelisk which marks her grave site was not chosen by herself rather was a gift from a friend of the family, so for all the people making allegations without any reason, proof or evidence need to study and investigate the matter before they post such false accusations!


  24. Hello dear brothers and sisters in Christ.

    I do not deem it necessary to write long. I have arrived at one conclusion after many years of study and prayer.

    And the conclusion is this:

    A true student of the Holy Bible will be guided by the Holy Spirit to discern the false prophetess Ellen G. White.

    Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ God Almighty who obtained our reconciliation to
    God through the shedding of his blood.

    by Benjamin Lizarraga April 11, 2008 at 12:40am.


  25. you are all full of hypocrites. What did Ellen G. White do to you that you have to say all negative about her. Because of her, the modern science also proving that vegetarian diat, and other health lifestyle that she wrote is the best. Please read the truth and follow but don’t follow. Iam a doctor myslef and I proved that everything that Ellen G. White write about health is the best. In fact it is better the modern medicine. You are all jealous and you don’t have no light. Shame on you. What have you done to contribute to the world to save lives? Ellen G. white has saved alot of lives because of her writings. If you don’t believe her, just keep you sin to yourself but don’t tempt people to believe you. Who are you to talk like that. The God of heaven will judge you for you are against God’s prophet.


  26. Tear roll dowm even now when i go through.I will love her and follow the way of the great servant of Jesus.


  27. ellen white used the word ‘eye of providence’ in her writings. this word is masonic and doesnt refer to the Godhead. I loved ellen white but God is not coming for her disciples but true Christians who are the elect. KJV says the elect shall not be deceived even by pure plagiarism. it is not about who is closer to the truth but who lives the truth. the greatest Man or lets say the God who walked on earth couldnt be buried on Friday evening. how dare ellen let her husband be buried on Saturday afternoon. this is phareesism of the highest order. i have no words for they who say that ellen brought people to Christ. she is not even a prophetess and if so a prophet of doom. SDA’s will never grow spiritually if they rely on her books which dont point to the Lord but plagiarize and twist the truth. I didnt have to blog to see the masonic words on ellen’s books but by God opening my eyes. People of God dont be deceived but pray and fast, for htis are perilous times.


  28. Actually, she did not. The phrase “eye of providence” is not found in her published writings. You can search for yourself at http://www.whiteestate.org/search/search.asp


  29. Hello Friends,

    The last comment about the “eye of providence” is a poor excuse for rejecting Ellen White as God’s messenger. She does use the “The all-seeing eye of Jehovah” TV 3p. 416; “the all seeing eye” also used by pagans for centuries. Remember: The Devil, takes the truth of God and uses it in his deceptions so it is no reason to deny Ellen White. The Scripture plainly says;Ezra 5:5 “But the eye of their God..” and Deuteronom 11:12 “the eyes of the LORD thy God [are] always upon it…” shall we then deny Scripture ? I pray you will not Br.or Sister ? Mageto

    In His Love,

    rich


  30. It’s very sad to see people torn apart by the actions and writings of Mrs. Ellen G. White.

    In response to all this I would like to council everyone to take note for themselves and compare the Word of God to determine the truth. do not take any man’s word for the truth but research for yourselves.

    1). Isaiah 8:20 – “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”

    2). Matthew 7:15-20 –
    15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
    17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
    18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
    19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    Now, go and study the word of God and compare them to the life and writings of Mrs. Ellen G. White and compare them to see if the violate the word of God. If her words violate the words of God then there is no light in her but if they do not then you should listen to what she has to say.

    Most of those who claim Ellen to be a false prophet have never studied her lifestyle and teaching. For if they did they would see that she gave no glory to herself but points all to worship God the creator and to study his word for themselves.

    It would also appear that some of the critics themselves do not believe in the bible, or all of it:

    http://www.ellenwhite.info/dirk_anderson_on_the_bible.htm

    A few more questions:
    What fruitful examples do these critics have to testify?
    Do they believe in the Word of God?
    If you were to follow these critics, where would you go?
    Where will they lead you?
    Which church will you follow?
    Will you form your own church? Or maybe start your own ministry? Is it God’s plan for His people that they should be unorganized?


  31. The word Divine Providence is used by Masons. Ellen W. had knowledge that an omniscient eye is the devil: she says of an incident where a spiritual man is trailed by the omniscient eye in the Grt.Controvery. How can we be sure the eye of God in Ezra 5.5 and other Bible verses is the “Eye” of God used by Elen W esp. in the S2Christ. Ellen also claims that an angel told her to flash a masonic symbol to a fellow founder of Adventism. I find that very absurd if not satanic. In her vision to the little Remnant in 1849, she says that Jesus comes during midnight. However as Paul said that in His second coming, all the elements will melt & flee, and Luke; that as lightning flashes from one part of the sky to the other so shall He appear. Even I believe the sun rays will cringe at His glory. In tha same vision she says that besides Christ’s great illumination and splendour, shines strongly a star- the ‘sun’!! Where the hell does the sun come in the middle of the dark night? Furthermore, why should the sun dare shine at the presence of the returning King, its Creator? Isn’t this sun worship? Or the ‘Lord coming from the East’where sun’s rays travel before they reach us? Or where Constatine told his Legion of soldiers to face every morning?
    People accuse E.G.W of plagiarising other works, but I boldly say, she plagiarised the Bible. It is the Holy Spirit who reveals the truths of the Scriptures to us. Torn Bibles have brought hope to people. I need not write events of the Bible that contradict the Scriptures themselves let alone paraphrase Genesis to Revelation. Adventists find it hard to understand Bible truths without E.G.W, I dont know why???. From Pat.&Prop. to Daniel& Revelations= Ellen’s holy writ which they if not sell in chapters-, sell in whole books instead of opening the Scriptures to one and sharing the wonderful words. I trust none except the Godhead and the Scriptures. One should know that some of Ellen’s books were more expensive than a Bible. Am a critic because I once talked like the likes of Raymond, J.S. Franklin and A. Mesa. I confess I set aside the Bible for 3 mnths to study no other literature except those of E.White. I snarled at carnivores, though am still vegetarian and went to tears if anyone spoke ill of Ellen, but when I saw what Christianity entails I decided to put E. W work aside, read and confirm from the Scriptures first.
    The disciples never began new ministries but were to fulfill the one that Christ began with the prophets and continues with us today. God bless you all.


    • It is not satanic to flash a mason symbol if the angel did indeed show her the symbol. A symbol is just a symbol. will it not be midnight in some parts of he world when Jesus comes? and as for the plagiarism issue you really need to do more research on that. It is not true that all adventists struggle to understand bible truths without E.G.W. if you took your experience with ellen the wrong way is that not your problem the you had as an individual? who told you to set aside the bible that’s stupid she tells you to check the bible first. ANd nowhere does it tell you to snarl at carnivores.


  32. A friend of mine found out about Ellen and was more devastated than I am. I always was against the thought/doctrine of other worlds. I think that doctrine is about or originated from theosophy or somwhere not from the Biblical domain.
    I wonder why Adventist claim that the earth was the last creation when the Bible says the earth was there before the sun was made. Somebody inform me becoz have neva read it from the Bible.


  33. I have been a tour guide,conducting tours of the Historical sites her in Battle Creek Michigan, for more than twenty five years.I have taken thousands of
    of our people to Oak Hill Cemetary.My wife’s parents, and many other Saints now sleeping, That I have interviewed.who attended the funeral. Would be astonished to learn, some one believes the coffen they saw lowered into the grave was empty.Oak Hill Cemetery has very accurate records,They state She was buried July 24.The nonsense of keeping her body in a vault,is just that.It was common practice in those days,here in the northern states.To have a
    storage room for storing bodys when the ground was frozen. and digging graves with pick and shovel was next to impossible.Then in the spring when the ground thawed the bodys were buried.This structure was usually partially under ground,much cooler in the summer months,and warmer in winter.embalming in
    those days were primitive.After arriving by train from California,the body was stored in this structure untill the day if the funeral.If the statments attributed to Elder Fagle are true.He should have been more shure of His facts,that they would be used against the Church.


  34. I wish to update my comments on Sept 19.This is a perfect example of how conspiracy theories start .I am reading from the Review & Herald dated July 29 and August 5 1915 .F. M. Wilcox Editor.Article titled “The funeral Services of Mrs Ellen G White” Every detail of this service is recorded.It records a funeral procession of more than one hundred automobiles and horse drawn carriages.No less than nine street cars were chartered for the occasion.and many finding no room walked. Every detail of the grave site services are described,included are photographs of the scene,with floral arrangements in the back ground.(Let all note) “Hundreds gathered around the open grave with bowed head and sorrow-filled hearts ,as the remains of our dear sister were tenderly and silently lowered into the grave to rest beside the body of Her husband.” then a full size photograph shows the grave site.The floral arrangements have been rearranged and shows the ( NOW FILLED GRAVE) covered with flowers.No mention is made in this article,of the estimate of the
    number of those present to witness this scene.But in the local paper and by all present .there were more than fifteen hundred witnesses that observed Her lowered into that grave .


  35. I can understand why devotees of Ellen White would greatly dislike the factual information about Ellen White’s 33-day delayed burial. Indeed, there was an initial fake burial according to the White Estate. Moreover, Arthur White was a skeptic of this information until he finally read a letter written to Willy White by his brother about the delayed interment. The younger brother reported to Willy that he even opened the coffin and viewed the body of his mother after 33 days. These are NOT fabrications from so-called “hate” ministries. Clearly, Ellen White was highly controversial during her lifetime and even in her death.

    Dennis J. Fischer
    E-mail: dennisfischer@neb.rr.com


  36. Even Professor Bachiochi, the undisputed authority on Sabbath was burried on Saturday. It is unfortunate that in Kenya the union has now outlawed funerals on Sunday not Saturday, because it might require preparation on Sabbath. So as for this Union you have to burry either on Weekdays or no church official is allowed to officiate on Sunday and you might be baned from holy communion.


  37. >If White’s interment did not actually take place until August 26, what were the reasons?

    Takes time for the train to travel from Elmshaven, CA to Battle Creek, MI.


  38. So much for R.I.P. I’m glad the dead know nothing; how could Ellen sleep if she knew what was going on after all these years? Did Ellen carve and set her own grave marker? Let’s follow her example and seek and save the lost, and let’s let God judge the quick and the dead.
    Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water, nor throw the bath water into each others face, or we may just be offending the Father: so be careful my dear brothers, which ever side of the fence you sit.

    In conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments for this is the whole duty of man; and the practice of dear sister White. May she continue to rest in peace.

    And oh yeah! I’m gonna carve my own grave marker and save all the hassle when I’m gone.


  39. Although ELLEN WHITE died long time ago, I believe was the messanger of GOD. Although is not with us, her books is still saying with us and this is to say, she is still talking with us. Her books have changed my life. I thank God always to still talking with me.


  40. Hey friends and fellow travelers in this lives journey. I’m sad that this discussion had to take place. But, I like to say:
    1. First of all, lets not forget that we are living on the battle grown of the most foresees war that was ever fought – the war between good and evil – and sad to say most of the soldiers – from both sides – are invisible to us; and because of that fact most of the times we are oblivious to this reality. Enemy of God and man constantly wants to deceive us. So, be careful my friends.

    2.I believe that we are all guilty to some extent – some more and some less – of putting Ellen G. White on the pedestal where no human has right to be. We took everything that she ever said and wrote as inspired. But, that was not the case with any other author of the Bible, how can it be anything else with her?

    3. All the prophets are humans just as you and I are and their understanding of Gods Word, of life itself, and the politics of their times are no better or worst then all of ours, EXCEPT what and when God has shown them something in vision, dream or by His own voice; And that has to be taken in the context of the whole Bible, not just one vision or dram…
    4. In 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 God said: “Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” YES, that applies to the Ellen G. White too.In doing this don’t forget that the Word of God is ‘the light that shines (more and more) until the day downs and day stare arises…’ 2 Pet. 1:19

    Pray without ceasing and God bless you.


  41. Yes A have a question this is for the one one who made the blog or any other SDA who would like to comment. I need some info dealing with the claim that Ellen White was a Mason due to the tombstone what could be said about that why was the obselik chosen. This issue needs to be addresed becouse of alot of bashers use this. Thanks for any help God Bless!


    • Just to add, women cannot become Freemasons. To become a “Mason” you must be male, freeborn, of lawful age, and well recommended. She would have been eligible to join the Eastern Star, a female accepted masonic sponsered organization, if she had an immediate family member that was a Mason; but to my knowledge, there is no record of this.


  42. On the obelisk being Masonic try this site: http://www.masonicinfo.com/obelisk.htm


  43. Just because someone (like Ellen White) has an obelisk as a gravestone does not mean they are a Mason. In fact, the Masonic Square and Compass would be a far greater proof of Masonic membership.

    Similarly, many gravestones have crosses on them, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the person buried there was Christian.

    Plus, obelisks were a popular form of gravestone back in the day.

    I think people are digging way too deep into this whole subject about Ellen White’s gravestone.


    • I agree good points friend God bless!


  44. To My Fellow Christians:

    I have visited the White grave plot; it truly is amazing within the context of so many other grave plots in Oak Hill Cemetery with Masonic signs and symbols, including that of C.W. Post.

    James died at age 60, 34 years before Ellen. The obelisk and Masonic “foundational building stones”, including a poor man’s symbol of the “Masonic doorway to enlightenment”, surrounded the White family plot prior to Ellen’s death. Brushing aside the cost of such symbols, the fact that Ellen obviously knew what was placed on the family plot, and did not receive a “vision” or communication from the Holy Spirit regarding God’s most hated symbol, Jezebel’s phallic/Baal/Asherah poles, is an enormous statement regarding the validity of her prophetic gift.

    Add to this the details regarding her plagiarism of Mason and Mormon founder Joseph Smith, as well as her prolific use of Masonic terms such as “all seeing eye”, “watcher”, “channels”, “the Great Builder”, “the Great Architect”, “Peter’s ladder of eight rounds”, “mystical body”, “vibrations”,
    “lesser light”, the green “New Age chakra” like cord she received from her “guide” to hold over her heart and to use it to see Jesus by “stretching it to the utmost”, to her description of seeing Jesus at the top of the stairs beyond the closed door, and the reasons for her mysterious well documented burial 33 days after her death following her
    “pretended” burial post her third funeral, begin to make sense.

    In a letter from James Edson White to his brother W.C. White, written October 15, 1915, Edson writes, “There were some matters mentioned in your letter of September 17 which I have not answered. You asked in regard to mother’s burial. I think I explained this to you fully, stating that we went to the grounds about three weeks after the funeral and we saw her placed in the grave that had been prepared for her. Of course her face had changed considerably, and yet she was preserved as well as I could expect. When we went to the cemetery Sister Israel took me over in her auto, and we were glad to meet Mr. and Mrs. R. C. Gardner, Mrs. E. B. Jones, and Mrs. L. V. Barton. They are all our people and happened to be at the grave just at the time the change was made from the vault to the grave. Everything went off smoothly and occupied but little time. In regard to the expense of this, I asked the sexton to render the bill through Mr. Farley, the undertaker, who had all these matters in hand, and I presume it had reached you through him.”

    For the E.G.W. devotees, I’m sorry all this is likely disturbing, but remember your “hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness”!

    Go to the whiteestate.org website. Click on the picture search engine. Type in lithograph, and you’ll see the Great Controversy lithograph conceived by James and Ellen White in 1874. Notice the very prominent Masonic “All Seeing Eye”, the Masonic rays of the sun, the Masonic square/compass/pyramid in the sky.

    Go to the Freemason Hall website and you can even learn about other Masonic symbols found in the logo of Andrews University containing an Aladdin’s Lamp & the Egyptian Pyramid. Symbolism certainly not overlooked by many, is the fact that Aladdin’s Lamp in Masonry represents the pot of incense, the first step of apprenticed youth. You can also find Aladdin’s lamp in a stained glassed window of Pioneer Memorial Church, as well as other Masonic/pagan symbolism incorporated into the design of the church. Please don’t wimp out and say the lamp is representative of the lamp Jesus spoke of; the appearance of an oil lamp like the one that Jesus spoke of is well established, and would never be confused with the style of the Masonic Aladdin’s lamp.

    The parable of the five wise and the five foolish virgins is so appropriate today to remind Seventh-day Adventist members and leadership that it is long past the time to wake up and smell the smoke that is revealing the brush fire that is racing across Adventism; a passionate fire burning in the hearts of true believers which hunger to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. May God grant the church sufficient courage to bring itself into alignment with every jot and tiddle from scripture.

    I leave you to contemplate the following sobering verses of scripture:

    “This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.” Deut. 7:5-6 (NIV)

    “I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you.” Lev. 26:30 (NIV)

    Oh friend, do you love Jesus? Do you love Him more than error? Do you love Him enough to take the stand you said you always would, for the truth?


    • >Add to this the details regarding her plagiarism of Mason and Mormon founder Joseph Smith,

      Actually, the Mormon scholar who looked into this claim doesn’t even believe it.

      In February 1997, Dr. Richard Bushman, a Mormon professor, discussed the question of Ellen White’s possible literary dependency on Joseph Smith at a lecture reported on by Gerry Chudleigh. Gerry submitted his report to Dr. Bushman for his input, and what follows accurately represents the main points of Dr. Bushman’s presentation:

      Mormon History Professor Sees No Evidence Ellen White Borrowed From Joseph Smith

      Saturday afternoon, February 8, [1997,] Dr. Richard Bushman, a history professor from Columbia University, responded to recent suggestions that Ellen White borrowed some of her visions from the writings of Mormon pioneer, Joseph Smith. The meeting was sponsored by the San Diego chapter of the Association of Adventists Forums.

      Dr. Bushman, who is currently doing research on early 19th century prophets from the so-called “burned over district” of New York, presented himself as a loyal Mormon who once taught at Brigham Young University and currently teaches a Sunday School class in his local stake. In answer to a question from the audience Bushman made it clear he believes Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God. He said one could not cease to believe in Joseph Smith and still be a Mormon.

      The audience of about one hundred people included mostly Seventh-day Adventist but also about a dozen Mormons. Dr. Bushman, was introduced as a historian well known by most Mormons. He made several observations:

      1. Mormon apologists and historian have spent over a hundred years tracking down supposed sources from whom critics charge Joseph Smith borrowed. They find the idea of Ellen White, or anyone else, borrowing ideas and phrases from Joseph Smith surprising and amusing. This is the first time, he said, that anyone has ever suggested that Smith was a source for someone else.

      2. Bushman said a person knowledgeable in 19th century culture would find it hard to imagine any contemporary religious leader owning, reading, or copying from a book by Smith. He said that at the time Ellen White wrote, Smith was universally rejected and despised by religious and non-religious people alike. To use any of his material would have been counterproductive at best.

      3. He stated that although he had not conducted an exhaustive study of possible similarities between Ellen Whites writings and those of Joseph Smith, he had read the passages forwarded to him by Adventist Today magazine and found nothing that suggested that Ellen White was in any way familiar with the writings of Joseph Smith. What he did find, he said, was one of many examples illustrating that there was a language and experience common to most religious people in the 19th century.


    • The lithograph is very disturbing….I am a 53 year old born and raised sda and today is the first I have seen it! A picture speaks a thousand words! I have been doing a lot of research on the illuminati, Masons, new world order, etc. and this picture is full of symbolisms. I truely believe we are living in the last days and that many in our faith will be deceived because they think they have all the answers and know all the players….it’s time to wake up! Do you really think you know all of satan’s tricks? Also, I agree with your statements on the grave markers…the fact that Ellen was very much alive when James was buried and the marker placed…makes it obvious that she was approving of them. The Devil has always mixed truth with error…we must be watchful and pray and be scripture ONLY!


  45. There’s a YouTube video on the Mason claim:

    “Truth On Trial Was Ellen G. White A FreeMason?”


  46. Perhaps it’s time to learn more through scientific handwriting analysis those traits of character reflecting a true or false prophetess.

    Was she truly humble and shy or did she actually love attention and fame?
    Was she of sound mind and body or did she struggle with demonic influences due to a brain injury?
    Was she a compulsive writer, controlling, or manipulative?
    Did she have a temper or did she love controversy?
    Did she love telling the truth?
    Is her handwriting full of of double loops, tricky hooks and ink filled letters?
    ???


    • Perhaps it’s time to learn more through scientific handwriting analysis those traits of character reflecting a true or false prophetess.

      HOW ABOUT KNOWING ABOUT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS IF THEY SPEAK NOT ACCORDING TO THE LAW OR THE TESIMONY THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM! ISAIAH 8:20

      Was she truly humble and shy or did she actually love attention and fame?

      YOU COULD ASK YOURSELF THAT SAME QUESTION ARE YOU TULY HUMBLE IT IS NOT ARE JOB TO GO AROUND TESTING TO SEE HOW HUMBLE PEOPLE ARE TAKE ALL THE PROPHETS AND FOLLOWERS OF GOD WAS THEY HUMBLE AT ALL TIMES? THEY LEARNED!

      WAS SHE SHY SHE SEEMED TO BE FROM WHAT IVE READ ABOUT HER IF SHE WANTED ATTENTION AND FAME SHE WOULD HAVE DRAWN ATTENTION AWAY FROM CHRIST RATHER THAN PLACEING ATTENTION ON CHRIST READ HER STUFF IF SHE FAILED IN ANYWAY TO POINT THE WAY TO JESUS I WILL GLADLEY SAY I’M WRONG!

      Was she of sound mind and body or did she struggle with demonic influences due to a brain injury?

      SO IF HAVEING A BRAIN INJURY MEANS THAT THERE DEMONIC YOU ARE SAYING ALOT OF PEOPLE WITH SEAZERZ AND RETARDATION AND OTHER BRAIN DISFUNCTIONS ARE DEMONIC PLUS MANY PEOPLE WHO HAS HAD AN INJURY IS.I WOULD HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU!

      Was she a compulsive writer, controlling, or manipulative?
      EVERYONE WHO WAS UNDER THE GUIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS COMPULSIVE IN WRITING THE BIBLE! AGAIN IF SHE WROTE IN A MANIPULATIVE WAY SHE WOULD NOT HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT THE LAW AND THE TESIMONY!
      AND DID NOT THE SCRIBES CONTROL THE WRITINGS OF THE BIBLE TO INSURE THAT THEY WERE CORRECTLY COPIED EACH TIME?
      Did she have a temper or did she love controversy?
      Did she love telling the truth?
      CONTRROVERSY ALWAYS COMES YOUR WAY WHEN YOU TELL THE TRUTH GO TELL SOMEONE ABOUT JESUS THAT DOES NOT BELIEVE OR IS A MUSLIM AND SEE HOW MUCH CONTROVERSY YOU STEAR UP!
      IF HAVEING A TEMPER SAYS SHE CAN’T BE USED BY GOD THEN YOU NEED TO DISQALIFY MOSES! THERE IS A SUCH THING AS RIGHTEOUS ANGER TAKE JESUS FOR EXAMPLE WHEN HE CHASED OUT THE MONEY CHANGERS!

      Is her handwriting full of of double loops, tricky hooks and ink filled letters?
      NOW THAT IS NOT A WAY TO FIND OUT IF THERE A TRUE PROPHET OR NOT DO YOU BY CHANCE HAVE THE ORIGINAL WRITINGS OF ANY PROPHETS OF THE BIBLE?????
      AGAIN THE LAW AND THE TESITIMONY IS THEY WAY TO TEST THEM! THE VERY WORD OF GOD REGARDLESS OF POPULAR OPINION GODS WORD IS THE ONLY TRUTH THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER GOD BLESS!
      ???


  47. >Perhaps it’s time to learn more through scientific handwriting analysis those traits of character reflecting a true or false prophetess.

    Once upon a time I was asked in a job application to give a sample of my handwriting. Unfortunately for them, I had just seen a show in which they showed that there is no scientific basis for the claims of handwriting analysis. So, that’s what I told them.


  48. very interesting… The video above was really interesting a freemason huh. Nice one, didnt know about the strange funeral stuff but very interesting indeed.


    • Yes I made the video due to all the EGW,SDA bashers out there the video shows there error in there claim feel free to share with others God bless!


    • By the way love the new study Bible


  49. Robert,

    Why do you love the new SDA Study Bible so much? Is it because of its heavy slant toward Adventism like the Clear Word Bible?

    Dennis Fischer
    E-mail: dfministries@gmail.com


    • First of all I did not say so much I said I love I love all the Bibles I have differnt reasons I have different versions. Yes the remnant Bible has an adventist study notes and EGW COMMENTS there is nothing wrong with that. It is a nkjv bible made by thomas nelson it is not the pattent bible for the sda church nether is the clear word the clear word is just a parphraise our churches have in the pews a kjv max lucado has his own bible is that wrong,is charles stanley wrong for haveing his own and many others ALL have commentary and comments but it is wrong for sda to have this bible ok


  50. Maranatha!
    i’


  51. i’m still so dissappointed at how the people conducted the funeral of Mrs White because i believe if she was given a chance to attend her own funeral she would have done it differently and simple.
    Jesus is the captain of our lives but He was not buried on Sabbath and even He did’nt ressurect on Sabbath because He hallowed and kept the sabbath in the grave.Please rethink your statement on whats supposed to be done on Sabbath and the issue of funerals, but i’m not shaken because Ellen is a lesser light and Jesus is the big light and i only follow Jesus and Him crucified.


  52. Looking into these interesting historical details is simply that–interesting. These discussions actually please the devil because whether there were mistakes made when Ellen White was buried or not, whether the shape chosen for her gravestone is a poor one or a silent sinister plot, the fact is this only distracts us from the work of the Gospel and spread of essential truth. The ‘truth’ dredged up here is only trivial and at worst, the sins of our fathers. There are some who love to focus on the sins and become swept by them. By faith, let’s focus our eyes on Jesus and allow His messages in Scripture and Mrs. Whites ministry lead us to a closer walk with him!

    If the Holy Spirit chose to use a faulty man or woman like you or I, would He be wrong to do so? The fact is He does every day!


  53. It seems to me to be another case like “Ellen’s contradictions of her self and the Bible. The E G white estate claims that she is not contradicting the Bible, she is adding details. when details added contradict God’s word we know that calling it added details won’t make it a testimony from God or the true, its still a lie. Who really cares when she died or how many funerals she had. God and Jesus and a lot of people who actually read the scriptures as they are reading Ellen G. White know she was a charlatan who was truly deceptive. She admitted she “borrowed others works, but did not give them credit because she did not want to elevate the author into a position of authority. (she wanted all the royalties and glory for others words for herself.) Obviously a thief and a liar. And a false prophet according to the SDA 28 beliefs. One of their beliefs is that a true prophets prophesies always come true. when E G Whites did not come true they make up excuses for her. known as apologies. All the info I have read on the the official E G White estate is supposed to prove she was a true prophet. Read their apologies for her errors. They themselves prove she was not a true prophet. the SDA Church must come clean (1) and admit that she stole over a third of her works. (2)Her works were written by her writing staff. (3)Her visions were caused not from God, but stemmed from the brain damage she suffered when a child. (4)she made prophecies that did not happen when she claimed they would. (5) Correct her writings where they contradict the Bible and where she contradicts herself. have fun praise God, Confess Jesus in truth and examine what you hear. Study to show yourself approved a worker unto God.


  54. I have spent the last 8 years studying the question of EGW’s alleged plagiarism. I’m one of the few who has actually read Dr. Veltman’s work and analyzed the evidence from both his work and Walter Rea’s. Some of the work can be seen at http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/David/. What little EGW borrowed from others (less than 3%) would not have resulted in any increase in royalties or glory.

    It is true that a lie is a lie. But, in this case, it isn’t Ellen White who was telling the lie. It is her critics.


  55. >the SDA Church must come clean (1) and admit that she stole over a third of her works.

    You want the church to tell a lie? The amount of literary similarity is around 3%. The amount that you can then prove was dependent is even less than that!


  56. I felt I should let you know I am also a Seventh Day Adventist. My mother joined the church in ’57 when I was six years old. In the fifth grade while attending the SDA elementary school we were told the story about how Ellen was “called to be a prophet.” The Lord showed me back then that he does not make mistakes, and not the same mistake twice in a row. God did not make the mistake of asking a man to be a prophet just to be turned down, he did not go to the second man and make the same mistake a second time. This was a lie by Ellen and those two wanna be prophets who wanted to draw little Ellen into their christian dogma. Now as an adult I read the White estate web site and am even more convinced she was not a prophet. It was her site that proved it to me. God told me she was a false prophet when I was a child. Ellens web site convinced me God is right and Ellen is wrong. The members of the SDA church must find out the truth before dragging more people into the White lies still expounded on by the White estate and many, many pastors. I know Pastor George Knight. I go to the same church as him in Medford Oregon. I told him two years ago before looking at the white estate web site that I really wanted to believe that Ellen was a prophet. I told him that I had noticed in her writings that sometimes she contradicted the Bible and that was a stumbling blocking block for me and a lot of other Adventists. He told me that I just had to have faith that she was. He also said that yes it is true that she contradicts the Bible. George Knight further stated that the Bible also contains contradictions (true it does)and we would just have to wait and see which is right Gods Holy Word, or Ellen G White. Don’t be deceived read up on her on all her pro-Ellen sites. Pay attention to their explanations, you will be amazed at how convoluted some of them are.God bless and remember the Sabbath.


    • >George Knight further stated that the Bible also contains contradictions (true it does)

      I have had the privelge of having taken several classes under him at Andrews. I highly doubt that he said such a thing. There are only apparent contradictions–especially to the superficial readers.

      Bible critics have long lists of alleged contradictions and errors in the Bible. So, I sat down one day to see how well they did. I started with the simplest and easiest one’s I could find. First up, “turtles have a voice” (S0S 2:12). Turns out the Hebrew word for “turtle” (towr or tor) means “turtle-dove.” I was able to prove that they were wrong in four simple cases in less than half a day. When they are wrong on such simple stuff why should I trust their analysis on the more complex? There’s no upside to believeing a liar.


  57. the amount is not 3% as believed in 1960, it is more than 33% as proven in the 1980′s. Check your facts. The book “the desire of age’s” if source sited would have almost every paragraph sited for it source.Those are already proven facts read more about her. you are still giving 1960′s info and that is misleading for the people reading this. look it up before you make any more errors as Ellen and her staff of writers did.


    • Read “Paradise Lost” written by John Milton in 1667. For 25 years he studied every book he could find about the Biblical Creation. He wrote his epic poem “Paradise Lost” as a result of those 25 years of study, no vision. Now read all that Ellen wrote about Adam and Eve in the Garden. Odd how it is almost exactly the same story. sometimes whole sentences of John Miltons are used. Odd she owned the book Paradise Lost at the time she wrote her Book two hundred years later in the 1860′s. If you still believe after reading his book that she did not plagiarize that book you will never believe. God does not steal, therefore it follows her supposed vision for writing her book (which she “borrowed”)did not happen. check it out please


      • when Ellen stole from other writers she called it “borrowing.” when you borrow something you are supposed to give it back, at the very least admit who you borrowed it from. Otherwise it is just another form of stealing. as in a rose is a rose is a rose no matter what you call it. Understand?


    • >the amount is not 3% as believed in 1960, it is more than 33% as proven in the 1980′s. Check your facts.

      I don’t know what they said in the 60′s but I have looked and the average amount of literary similarity is around 3%. You can check it out for yourself at http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/David/. That site only has one chapter from Sketches–I went through all 32 chapters. The bibliography on that site is also woefully out of date–I now have over 700 sources over 177 pages.

      >The book “the desire of age’s” if source sited would have almost every paragraph sited for it source.

      Not even close, as the above web site shows.


  58. a better word than “admit” would be “acknowledge”. thank you


  59. >sometimes whole sentences of John Miltons are used.

    Nice claim. I go by the facts. Prove it.

    >a better word than “admit” would be “acknowledge”

    That would be to tell a lie.


  60. >when Ellen stole from other writers she called it “borrowing.” when you borrow something you are supposed to give it back, at the very least admit who you borrowed it from.

    Actually, she didn’t call it anything. Literary experts in the field with no axe to grind call it borrowing. Understand? Try reading Robert Macfarlane’s Original Copy: Plagiarism and Originality in Nineteenth-Century Literature.

    anon., “Recent Poetical Plagiarisms and Imitations,” The London Magazine 8 (1823): 597-604.

    Did you notice the date?

    “Where the sentiment and the expression are both borrowed, there can be no doubt;–single words, on the contrary, taken from other authors, cannot convict a writer of plagiarism; they are lawful game, wild by nature, the property of all who can capture them…” (page 597).


  61. >God does not steal,

    Who inspired the biblical writers? Why did they borrow from others and themselves? Read 1 &2 Kings and 1 & 2 Chroinicles–notice the high degree of similarity between the two. John borrowed from the book of Enoch. He also has 2,500 echoes and allusions to the OT in the book of Revelation.
    ===
    Edwards, W. A. Plagiarism: An Essay on Good and Bad Borrowing. (1933): “The great [literary] artist is only one of a long chain of borrowers and adapters.”


  62. “Sir Walter has found out (O rare discovery) that facts are better than fiction, that there is no romance like the romance of real life, and that, if we can but arrive at what men feel, do, and say in striking and singular situations, the result will be ‘more lively, audible, and full of vent,’ than the fine-spun cobwebs of the brain. With reverence be it spoken, he is like the man who, having to imitate the squeaking of a pig upon the stage, brought the animal under his coat with him. Our author has conjured up the actual people he has to deal with, or as much as he could get of them, in ‘their habits as they lived.’ He has ransacked old chronicles, and poured the contents upon his page; he has squeezed out musty records; he has consulted wayfaring pilgrims, bed-rid sybils. He has invoked the spirits of the air; he has conversed with the living and the dead, and let them tell their story their own way; and by borrowing of others has enriched his own genius with everlasting variety, truth, and freedom. He has taken his materials from the original, authentic sources in large concrete masses, and not tampered with or too much frittered, them away.” (William Hazlitt’s Sir Walter Scott.)
    ===
    “One is compelled not only to say, but also to believe, that all the great writers, absolutely all, are plagiarists, and that the best of each does not belong to him, because he has taken it from others.”—Quoted by Maurice Salzman in Plagiarism, The “Art” of Stealing Literary Material, (1931): 22.
    ===
    There’s a movie called “The Hoax” starring Richard Gere about Clifford Irving’s fictional autobiography of Howard Hughes. Gere comments about the film: “Like kids caught in a lie, you have to come up with an even bigger lie to cover the small lie.” Seems quite appropo to what the anti-SDA’s are trying to do about Ellen White and the SDA church.


  63. >it is more than 33% as proven in the 1980′s.

    Nothing of the sort was proven. If you actually read Dr. Veltman’s work you’ll find that he calls some sentences dependent even when there isn’t a single significant word that is the same between the two. Secondly, if you have 10 sentences of ten words each and you find three words in three sentences that are alike, do you have 3%, or 30%?


  64. >Read “Paradise Lost” written by John Milton in 1667. For 25 years he studied every book he could find about the Biblical Creation. He wrote his epic poem “Paradise Lost” as a result of those 25 years of study, no vision.

    I’d like to see you proof that he had no vision. I found his work here: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/pl/book_1/index.shtml and I’ll compare it with Desire of Ages.


  65. >Odd how it is almost exactly the same story. sometimes whole sentences of John Miltons are used.

    Not when one considers that both are steeped in the Bible.

    Care to tell us where these “whole sentences” can be found?

    571. Robinson, Andrew “Plagiarism… only be sure to call it research,” Time Higher Education Supplement 1278 (5/2/1997): 18.

    Points out that Voltaire discovered that Milton’s (Milton, 1608-1674) poem “Paradise Lost” (published in 1667) has 200 lines which “lent heavily on a barely known poem by the Jesuit Masenius” (Masenius, 1606-1681) and asks if we would convict Milton of plagiarism?


  66. >>Odd how it is almost exactly the same story. sometimes whole sentences of John Miltons are used.

    Extremely odd considering that Milton wrote a poem in free verse and not prose.

    I compared Milton with Patriarchs and Prophets and found 19 words that are the same. These were primarily fragments of Bible verses.

    This whopper will be #92 in my list.

    American King James Version
    For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie.


  67. you guys are funny you are arguing about ellen white’s masonic connections while quoting a book rewritten under the command of a gay free mason of the davidic bloodline. IE: King James. The free masons use the same bible as you. The bible is embedded with masonic symbolism from front to back and back to front. Ellen white seems to use the same.The masonic rituals venerate the rituals of king Solomon.


  68. Folks, who cares what percentage of plagiarism there was? “A little bit of leaven, leavens the whole batch of dough right?” 1Cor.5:6. And what more do you need besides the fact she said some pretty crazy stuff, and her theology and teachings fulfilled a last day sign in 1 Tim. 4:1-5?

    Yes, we all know she attacked the marriage bed, and what people ate. Just think a minute about how many people, over 150 years, are going to hell because they exchanged Christ’s robe of righteousness for their own righteousness through diet, and abstaining from “indulging their husband’s base passions”. Yes, you heard right, countless Seventh-day Adventist women have withheld sexual relations in marriage, following Ellen’s marriage counsel, to “live as though they were not”. Yes, withheld marital relations in an ongoing manner in clear opposition to the Bible, causing their husbands to lust after other women. Here is a thought you hadn’t thought about it: Adventists lusting and sinning because a “prophet” discouraged sex in marriage. Lusting and sinning because Prophetess Ellen told them that everytime they had sex they were using up their “life force”; “life force” which should be used in service to God. This crazy Ellen idea has been obliterated by science, and in fact, studies have shown that the increased frequency of sexual relations significantly reduces the risk of a heart attack; something called exercising the heart.

    Wake up people, what more do you need to stand up for Jesus and be counted? What more do laymen and pastors need before they will unite their voices for the purity of the gospel?

    The Bible challenges us to consider a person’s fruit. Think about all the E.G.W. devotees you have known since you were a kid. Were they nice, loving, non-jugmental, lift up Jesus, “I love Jesus”, “Do you know my Jesus?” kind of people?? Or were they, “Sister White says, in Vol 1 of the Testimonies, we should….” or “According to the Spirit of Prophecy, ‘Not until the character of Christ is perfectly reproduced, will the end come.’” or “Somebody brought cheese to potluck, and Sister White says……” or “Sister White says that we will be held accountabe for every idle word and every idle moment not used in service for the Master…”

    The stakes are so high in light of all of the research that has been done. Either a person will choose to embrace the grace denying spirit behind Ellen’s non-plagiarized words, or they will stand up for Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit and the B.I.B.L.E.

    Did anyone else look up the “green cord” reference in J. Christian’s post above? It does appear to be a symbol of the green spiritualism chakra for over the heart. Ellen getting guidance from a “guide” who gives her a “green cord”, a snake like green cord she must straighten out to conjure up Jesus. Really? Come on Ellen, really? Come on SDA leadership, really? Come on EGW devotees, really?

    I’ll tell you where this “guide” came from and it wasn’t heaven. This “guide” came from the pit of Hell, and this “guide” is trying to take as many SDAs with him that he can.

    Something to think about. Something to act upon.


  69. >who cares what percentage of plagiarism there was? “A little bit of leaven, leavens the whole batch of dough right?” 1Cor.5:6.

    The simple fact is that there wasn’t any plagiarism period. So even a small lie can get one sent to hell (Rev. 21:8, 22:15).

    588. Robinson, B. A. “Seventh-day Adventist Church Its origin, beliefs, practices, etc.,” Retrieved Feb. 22, 2008, from http://www.religioustolerance.org/sda.htm.

    He concluded (without seeing the type of study recommended by Dr. Veltman) that I had already “demonstrate[d] that there is no proof of Ellen White’s plagiarism.” The evidence he saw is at: http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/David/

    When the critics are wrong on such simple stuff, why should they believed on the more complex?

    “At the end of the day, the truth is the only thing we have.” Horatio Caine, CSI: Miami

    “The search for the truth is not for the faint-hearted.” Detective Goren, Law and Order: Criminal Intent


  70. Bless your heart Mr. Conklin, do you really believe she never plagiarized anyone else’s writing? She not only plagiarized word for word sections, (See Daniel March, Night Scenes in the Bible, 1823, p. 88, compared to Selected Messages, vol 1, pg. 27), she went so far as to even steal other people’s artwork.

    The best example of discussions regarding Ellen’s literary theft by her contemporaries, has to be the remarks made by A.G. Daniels at the 1919 Bible Conference, “Yes: and now take that ‘Life of Paul,’ – I suppose you know all about it and knew that claims were put up against her, charges made of plagiarism, even by the authors of the book, Conybeare and Howson, and were liable to make the denomination trouble because there was so much of their book put into ‘The Life of Paul’ without any credit or quotation marks………………..I found it out and I read it with Brother Palmer when he found it, and we got Coneybeare and Howson, and we got Wylie’s ‘History of the Reformation’, and we read word for word, page after page, and no quotations, no credit, and really I did not know the difference until I began to compare them. I supposed it was Sister White’s own work. The poor sister said, ‘Why, I didn’t know about quotations and credits. My Secretary should have looked after that, and the publishing house should have looked after it’”.

    Mr. Conklin, did you know she even borrowed word for word sections from her husband’s books?

    I worry for you Mr. Conklin, for your faith is so tied up in believing in this sinful mortal, that should you finally come to the sad realization that EGW fulfills 1Tim 4:1-5, and or should you come to the sad conclusion that Ellen’s teachings bring her under the Apostle Paul’s condemnation for
    “preaching another gospel”, I fear you will not suffer the disappoint well, and could totally lose your faith in God. Please commit to truth, the Bible, and most importantly, to Jesus; “the author and finisher of our faith.” Hebrews 12:2


    • I’ve spent 8 years studying the subject. Some of the work can be seen here: http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/David/. When one outsider looked at what i had found he concluded that I had already “demonstrate[d] that there is no proof of Ellen White’s plagiarism.” (Robinson, B. A. “Seventh-day Adventist Church Its origin, beliefs, practices, etc.,” Retrieved and printed Nov. 17, 2010, from http://www.religioustolerance.org/sda2.htm.)

      I’m one of the few who has actually read Dr. Veltman’s 2,200+ word study and I followed through on a suggestion he made as to how to determine if EGW actually plagiarized or not. That study was then published in a scholarly, refereed journal (http://www.plagiary.org/papers_and_perspectives2008.htm).

      I have gone through all 32 chapters in Sketches and compared them with Conybeare and Howson’s work and Farrar’s work on Paul. Instead of making appeals to alleged authorities (your quote from A. G. Daniels) I actually looked at the evidence. It did NOT confirm what Daniels said.

      >she went so far as to even steal other people’s artwork.

      She did not; that was the printer’s decision.

      >your faith is so tied up in believing in this sinful mortal,

      My faith in God has nothing to do with Ellen G. White and I would appreciate it if you would not lie about me again.


      • Dear Mr. Conklin:

        You said, “My faith in God has nothing to do with Ellen G. White and I would appreciate it if you would not lie about me again.”

        First let me say good for you! Second, might I say that a lie is intentional in nature, and that no lie was intended. Therefore, I apologize and simply stand corrected.

        I accept that you believe that your support of Ellen White as a prophet of God, has nothing to do with affecting your faith or relationship with God.

        I hope you will respect that it is my belief and testimony, that after reading just about every whacked and un-Biblical thing she ever wrote, especially her attacks against marriage/marital intimacy, I had to come to no other possible conclusion than the one her own words led me to; she carries the hallmarks of a Biblically described false prophet. In my studied opinion, the evidence is overwhelming.

        Therefore, I could never defend her writings, for it is my Biblical belief that in doing so, I would surely negatively alter and negatively affect my personal relationship and standing in Jesus Christ. The Apostle Paul warned about the consequences that will come to those who participate in bringing
        “another gospel”.

        Daniel’s friends wouldn’t bow down to a statue, and millions of Christians died at the stake because they wouldn’t bow down to a single belief in transubstantiation. The remaining question for SDA scholars and administrators is this, “Are you willing to put your eternity on the line over a Biblically proven false prophet?”

        I for one, am not.


  71. >might I say that a lie is intentional in nature,

    I would say no. A lie is any statement that is not factual or true. Since you had no way of knowing of what you were talking about, it was a lie, period.

    >Therefore, I apologize and simply stand corrected.

    Thank you–I know of some people who could take a lesson from you.

    >I accept that you believe that your support of Ellen White as a prophet of God,

    I said nothing about her being a prophet. What I can tell you is that i have a list of 105 lies that have been told about her. What are the odds–given that they get simple things like the plagiarism claim wrong–that they’d be wrong on this point as well?

    >after reading just about every whacked and un-Biblical thing she ever wrote, especially her attacks against marriage/marital intimacy,

    Again, given that you didn’t know the truth about the plagiarism claim–what are the odds that you are right here?

    >The remaining question for SDA scholars and administrators is this, “Are you willing to put your eternity on the line over a Biblically proven false prophet?”

    Given the plagiarism lie it is more likely that it is you and the other critics who are fighting God on this issue. No one has ever proven that EGW was a false prophet from the Bible–they haven’t done so because there is no evidence to support their claim and so they have to tell lies about her instead.


  72. Dear Mr. Conklin:

    How about we let our “yea” be “yea”, and our “nae” being “nae”? Which is it? Do you believe and accept the SDA church’s claims regarding EGW, or do you not?

    With all of the studying you claim to have done, I truly am very curious if you have been able to still come down on the side of supporting the SDA Church’s claims regarding her “prophetic gift” without hesitation or equivocation??

    You stated, “..it is more likely that it is you and the other critics who are fighting God on this issue.” Will I get all incensed because your statement is false? Will I call your statement about me a “lie”? No, it is your opinion, and you have a right to that opinion. Will I ask you to stop lying about me? Seriously no. No, I’m not offended for defending the Bible, Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

    How about we let EGW’s words speak for themselves and settle the issue as to whether she opposed the Bible, or not?

    Consider EGW’s theology on total human perfectionism. She believed it to be a prerequisite to receiving the “refreshing” of the Holy Spirit. The following EGW quote clearly opposes the gospel taught in Scripture.

    And I quote, “I saw that none could share the ‘refreshing’ unless they obtain the victory over every besetment, over pride, selfishness, love of the world, and over every wrong word and action.” (EW, page 71.)

    Again, on total human perfectionism. She believed it to be a prerequisite to surviving alleged “abandonment by Jesus” during the end time.

    And I quote, “I also saw that many do not realize what they must be in order to live in the sight of the Lord without a high priest in the sanctuary through the time of trouble. Those who receive the seal of the living God and are protected in the time of trouble must reflect the image of Jesus fully.” (EW, page 71.)

    Here are some of EGW’s incredibly disturbing thoughts on marriage and marriage intimacy.

    And I quote, “There are many who are losing their souls in this age of the world, by becoming absorbed in the thoughts of marriage, and in the marriage relation itself.” (Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Sep. 25, 1888) “The time is and has been for years that the bringing of children into the world is more an occasion of grief than joy… Satan controls these children, and the Lord has but little to do with them. The time has come when, in one sense, that they that have wives be as though they had none.” (MS 34, 1885) “Let the Christian wife refrain, both in word and act, from exciting the animal passions of her husband. Many have no strength at all to waste in this direction. They have already, from their youth up, weakened their brains, and sapped their constitutions, by the gratification of their animal passions. Self-denial and temperance should be the watch-word in married life; then, when children are born to parents, they will not be so liable to have the moral and intellectual organs weak, and the animal strong. Vice in children is almost universal. Is there not a cause? Who have given them the stamp of character?” {Solemn Appeal, pg. 178 (1870)}

    What more needs to be said? Please study the following Bible verses:

    “For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light.” (Luke 8:17) “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:20) “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (I John 1:8) “Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
    For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.” 1 Timothy 4:1-6.


    • Try going through ALL of what EGW says on marriage and then summarize it. You’ll be in a much better position to discuss what she actually teaches about marriage.

      Let me show what can be done with the Bible just like people do with EGW by taking one or two verses and not taking all that is written on the subject. In 1 Corinthians Paul states (7:1 “…it is good for a man not to touch a woman”). Then down in verse 8 he adds that “i say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them to abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, then let them marry.”) Then over in verse 38 Paul suggests that a woman who doesn’t marry is better off than one who does.

      Well, with just that, it seems to me Paul is teaching that it’s best not to marry at all. Interesting conclusion. Using the technique that “Believer” does with EGW, you can come to any conclusion from the Bible as you can come from EGW’s writings.

      Use inspired writings wisely, and people are as safe as can be. But pick and choose selections, and there is no end to the possible bizarre and weird conclusions that can be drawn… whether from Scripture or EGW. EGW statements on marriage are easy to understand when taken in their context and when the ENTIRE body of her writing on the matter is used. Some people have a lot of home work to do.

      Are there some things in EGW’s writings that are hard to understand. Yes, of course there are. Just like there are A LOT of things in the Bible that are also hard to understand.


    • >“The time is and has been for years that the bringing of children into the world is more an occasion of grief than joy… Satan controls these children, and the Lord has but little to do with them. The time has come when, in one sense, that they that have wives be as though they had none.” (MS 34, 1885)

      I cannot confirm that this quote came from EGW.


  73. >With all of the studying you claim to have done, I truly am very curious if you have been able to still come down on the side of supporting the SDA Church’s claims regarding her “prophetic gift” without hesitation or equivocation??

    I studied one narrow issue. I have not studied as to whether or not she was a prophet or not. The Bible says that we are to explain our beliefs–one can hardly do that is all one can do is to point to what others have said. I do know that those who claim that she was a false prophet lied to be on 105 other counts–the odds of them being right on this one is exceedingly remote. When people are wrong on simple stuff, I don’t rush to believe them on the more complex.

    >Consider EGW’s theology on total human perfectionism.

    She didn’t teach that either.

    >alleged “abandonment by Jesus” during the end time.

    1) EGW didn’t teach that concept.
    2) “alleged”?!? What doe sthe Bible say:?

    Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.


  74. “Here I stand, I can do no other.” I must let others and the Lord Jesus judge the truth of what I have shared.

    I find I must kick the dust from my shoes and move on. This will be my last post.

    Matthew 7:6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
    ——————————————————————————–
    Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.
    ——————————————————————————–
    Proverbs 9:7 “Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult; whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse.
    ——————————————————————————–
    Proverbs 14:7 Stay away from a foolish man, for you will not find knowledge on his lips.

    “Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.” 2John 9-11.


  75. >“Here I stand, I can do no other.” I must let others and the Lord Jesus judge the truth of what I have shared.

    The claim that Ellen G. White plagiarized isn’t the truth.


  76. I was wondering too why her funeral was held on a sabbath, but knowing now that her husband’s funeral was held on the sabbath and she attended (of course), makes me secure in the thought that it was not sabbath breaking or God would have given her light on this matter if it was wrong. I know she endeavored in all things to please God and so I no longer have doubts on this subject…Let us not waste time trying to determine the right or wrong of this matter, but let us make haste to ready souls for the very soon coming of Jesus…blessings and peace to you all…


  77. very interest body of information. Most of the argument against Mrs. White is unfounded. Granted some things are difficult to understand when one does have all the facts. We owe to ourselves to look at both sides of an argument an make objective analysis of the situation and then make the right decision. As it stands with the body of information available to me the balanc is in Mrs. White favor. This having been said my faith stands not in man but in Christ alone


  78. very interest body of information. Most of the argument against Mrs. White are unfounded. Granted some things are difficult to understand when one does not have all the facts. We owe to ourselves to look at both sides of an argument and make objective analysis of the situation and then make the right decision. As it stands with the body of information available to me, the balance is in Mrs. White favor. This having been said, my faith stands not in man but in Christ alone


  79. What a lengthy post of arguments…Let me say something here, you can only argue and raise meaningless doubts and irrelevant points only if you don’t have the HOLY SPIRIT of God in you, period. Once you have the holy spirit, it quietly leads you to the truth. It is pertinent to also state here that, I have read a lot of sister EG White’s books and non of them ever contradicted the Bible. My faith is in Jesus Christ and Him alone. God bless you all.


  80. So why wasn’t Ellen buried unitl three weeks after her funeral? What were they waiting for…a miracle? Maybe they were expecting her to come back.


  81. Lincoln was shot on the 14th of April and wasn’t buried till May 3rd. Slow transportation back then.


  82. As christians who are waiting for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ to come and redeem us from this sinful earth; the only thing we have to believe is the bible and the bible only. E.G. White is a human and to err is man. Even amoung the deciples of Christ there was still erros found in them. So the only thing we should put in our mind is that; believing Christ and obeying the laws of God only can saved us. We should read our bible everyday and pray always that we may not enter into temptations. The devil has so many ways of working so let us all be wise and wide open our eyes so that we will not be decieved. God bless you all and Keep holy the Sabbath


  83. All of this are doesn’t matter. whether ellen white was a false prophet or not. let us leave this to God.she is dead and waiting for her judgement. let us think of the salvation for our selves and and families. So far so good,most of sister white’s book i have read have brought me so far to this level in Christianity. So is she was a false prophet then why will God allow her book to take root in the church till now. even doctors today uses most of her health books. scolars have studied hers books for several years but every year they publish over millions of them. can even just one come out and tell us this story? Pls let us focus our mind on God only.


  84. It seems that many commentors are more interested in defaming a woman who can’t defend herself rather than study YH’s (G-d’s) Word for themselves which she advised all readers of her inspired writings to do in comparison and to proof her testimony. She admitted she was faulty and deferred to YHUH (G-d).

    As far as i know, Mrs. White never considered herself a prophet. Further, each one of us has the very same capacity that she had for inspiration from YHUH’s Ruach (what pagan converts call h-ly spirit); too many of her detractors complain about her and lose out on YH’s Ruach which wants to fill us as well. The Word of YHUH tells about an outpouring of the Ruach ha Qodesh (h-ly spirit) in these times; are you paying attention? or are you missing out because you’re too busy piling up false accusations against a woman who was clearly inspired to write and testify about what she was allowed to witness? She was a daughter of fallen Adam redeemed in YHUShA (J-sus) our Saviour just like the rest of us of the fallen Adam who receive the Good News in faith. I agree with another poster here: a lot of the detractors are jealous instead of grateful to the Father of us all that He cared enough to give people inspirations to guide us.

    Furthermore, was she dictating her funeral arrangements and grave decor from the beyond? I think not. Didn’t she warn people that the “institutions” would fall down? Time to look to the Saviour; there is no safety in numbers or man-devised ways.

    As for Ellen White’s “plagiarism”. Anyone making that accusation might want to reconsider in light of their own hypocrisy (in Yahuchanon/John 8 i believe) we are told to judge with righteous judgement/Torah–in other words, don’t be guilty of the same thing for which you accuse another): you know what i mean: all the phrases you “borrow” and never accredit appropriately in formal and informal situations; it’s the same thing as what you are accusing Mrs White of doing. Remember, YHUH led her to use those phrases which she dictated to another; and, there’s always the chance that her “secretary” may have gotten lazy and didn’t do the accreditation which she may have directed. And i suspect that people in those times were familiar with and used similar phrases and “quotations” without accreditation. By the way, do you realize that Paul quoted pagans in his writings and advice? Look it up and please be very careful.

    A concerned sister in Messiah YHUShA


  85. She might have not been dictating her funeral, but she was in attendance at her husband’s funeral which was also on sabbath. No one seeks to bring any one down but it is within our duty to test all spirits. Why would anyone feel offended at the testing of the spirits- Adventists, relax. (I am one too). The issue of plagiarism is in fact a “buried” matter, to any scholar.
    Her role has been raised to the point of being referred to as a prophet, and as such- let us test her. Lest there be any fault with her and we perish for ignorance.


    • >The issue of plagiarism is in fact a “buried” matter, to any scholar.

      Just about. but, most people are unaware of the actual facts.

      >Her role has been raised to the point of being referred to as a prophet, and as such- let us test her.

      I would disagree–I don’t raise her to the level of prophet, so I have no need to test her as such. It says more about those who call her a prophet than it does about her.

      >Lest there be any fault with her and we perish for ignorance.

      Nathan had a fault that we know about. He is still a prophet of God.

      An easier way to deal with Ellen G. White is to look at the various claims that are being made about her, find the easiest simplest one to examine and check it out. I have a list of about 220 lies that people have told about her and in most cases it would only take 5 minutes to check even one out and find that it is false. The critics have yet to do that. In fact, just recently I found that two of the claims had already been listed–so the critics didn’t even take the time to check out the list to find that!

      I’m at the point where if the critics told me the time of day, I’d go find a clock to see for myself.


  86. THE FOLLOWING QUOTES FROM ELLEN G. WHITE AND ADVENT HISTORICAL RECORDS SHOULD SETTLE HOW GOD AND OUR ADVENTISTS PIONEERS VIEWED HOLDING FUNERALS ON THE SABBATH.

    Immediately after mailing the last paper we received the sad intelligence that Bro. White’s eldest son, Henry N., was very sick with lung fever, in Topsham, Me. Subsequent reports showed him to be rapidly failing, until now we are compelled to make the still more painful announcement of his death, which occurred on the 8th inst. The cares of the sick room have prevented Bro. White from attending to orders for charts, and other business matters. We doubt not our beloved Bro. and sister W. will be prayerfully remembered in their bereavement, by many sympathizing hearts all over the land. P. S. We have just received a telegraphic dispatch, stating that they will return immediately, and the funeral will be held here in Battle Creek next Sabbath, the 19th inst. u. s. {December 15, 1863 JWe, ARSH 24.1,2}

    On the 9th of August our hearts were made sad indeed by receiving a telegram from Battle Creek, telling us of the death of our dear Brother White, and that the funeral would be the next Sabbath (Aug. 13). On the day of the funeral I spoke from Rev.14:13. I told of Elder White’s ardous labors in the past. From these the Lord called him to rest until the Lifegiver shall come. {1987 JNL, MML 99.4}

    Though I had not risen from my sick-bed after my husband’s death, I was borne to the Tabernacle on the following Sabbath to attend his funeral. At the close of the sermon I felt it a duty to testify to the value of the Christian’s hope in the hour of sorrow and bereavement. As I arose, strength was given me, and I spoke about ten minutes, exalting the mercy and love of God in the presence of that crowded assembly. At the close of the services I followed my husband to Oak Hill Cemetery, where he was laid to rest until the morning of the resurrection. {LS 252.3}

    On Sabbath day, July 24, 1915, Mrs. White was laid to rest by the side of her husband, the late Elder James White, in the Oak Hill Cemetery, Battle Creek, Mich., there to await the summons of the Life-giver. {LS 462.1}

    I saw [that] they did wrong in afflicting the afflicted by reproving you for having the funeral on the Sabbath. I saw they had better been looking at themselves and seeing where they had erred from the path of duty that God had marked out for them to go in. I saw that she was sealed and would come up at the voice of God and stand upon the earth, and would be with the 144,000. I saw we need not mourn for her; she would rest in the time of trouble, and all that we could mourn for was our loss in being deprived of her company. I saw her death would result in good. {14MR 52.4;53.1}

    It is the Sabbath and I shall not be required to speak today. Brother Smith will speak in the forenoon, and in the afternoon Brother Farnsworth will give the funeral discourse of Brother Swift. {1888 463.1} Battle Creek, Mich., Sunday, October 27, 1889

    DEAR BRO. WHITE:- It is with pleasure that I now address a few more lines to you to inform you of the success of truth in this part of the State since you left us. Fifth-day, July 6th, Brn. Phelps, Hall and Stephenson met with the brethren in Hebron. An interest was awakened. Some had been investigating for some time. Sixth-day, Brn. Hall and Stephenson left to meet their appointment at Christania. Bro. Phelps came home intending to go back the same day to be with them over Sabbath; but when he came home he found that his youngest son, aged about one year and eleven months, had been taken captive by death. This was sudden and unexpected, and they deeply mourned their loss; but they found consolation in considering that he was taken away from the evil to come; neither do they sorrow as those who have no hope: believing that when Jesus shall appear, them that sleep in him shall God bring with him. The funeral took place on the Sabbath. The following evening we left for Hebron where we arrived at day-break on First-day. {August 15, 1854 JWe, ARSH 6.8}

    IN Adams township, Hillsdale Co., Mich., on the evening of the 7th of January, inst., Maria, wife of Easton Wilbur, fell asleep in Jesus, aged 50 years. Sister Wilbur joined the Presbyterian church in her youth, where she remained about eight years. She then united with the Methodists, with whom she stood connected nearly thirty years, and until she heard the present truth in the tent at Hillsdale, last Summer. The Third Angel’s Message readily found its way to her willing heart, and from that time she lived rejoicing in its light. Her health had been very poor for some time, and she expressed great thankfulness that she was spared to be sealed in the last work of our Saviour. She was fully resigned to the will of God, and expressed an entire willingness to sleep during the time of trouble. Her loss is deeply felt in her family, in the church, and in the community. The influence of her example over those younger in years and in the faith of the gospel, was truly great; as in her life were combined in a degree not often found, the sobriety and calm cheerfulness of temper so essential in the character of the Christian. The funeral services were held in the Christian Chapel, near Bro. W.’s residence, on the Sabbath. The house was closely filled with sorrowing and sympathizing friends, to whom I spoke from Rom.vi,23. The Lord strengthened me to reason of the blessed hope, and we trust the opportunity was blessed to the good of our Redeemer’s cause. J. E. W. Adams, Mich., Jan. 13th, 1857. {January 22, 1857 UrSe, ARSH 95.25-28}

    Died of typhoid fever, in Jamaica, Vt., September 26th, Clarke Wilder, son of Bro. James Wilder, in the 17th year of his age. This young man gave his heart to the Lord a few weeks before his death, and left good evidence that he would have a part in the first resurrection. The funeral sermon was preached last Sabbath by Bro. Sperry. {January 5, 1860 UrSe, ARSH 55.20,21}

    Bro. Benson embraced the Bible Sabbath more than six years ago (having previously left the Methodist connection), since which he has felt a good interest in the advancement of present truth. We now miss him in our neighborhood, we shall miss him in our church, and he will be greatly missed by his bereaved family. May this affliction be sanctified to the good of us all. Some remarks were made on the subject of the resurrection, at his funeral, Sabbath, the 3rd inst. A.S. HUTCHINS. {March 22, 1860 UrSe, ARSH 143.21}

    Yesterday, which was the Sabbath, I was called upon to attend the funeral of a little child aged three years. I showed that all that die by Adam’s transgression will be made alive by Christ’s death and resurrection, that there were two resurrections; that on those who share in the first, the second death hath no power; that none but sinners would die the second death; and that none were sinners but those who had transgressed God’s law; for sin is the transgression of the law, and the wages of sin is death. Therefore none are amenable but sinners. The parents seemed interested and were much affected. May the Lord help them to keep his commandments. Yours in truth. A. H. DANIELS. Sumner, Wis. {March 12, 1861 UrSe, ARSH 135.5,6}

    Died in Ann Arbor, Nov. 30, Arthur Edmunds, aged 19 years, youngest son of Bro. and sister Edmunds of the same place. He returned from Texas five days before his death, where he had been for a few months past. His mind was much stirred up on the subject of religion, and from some expressions that he made his friends have hope of his acceptance with his Maker. Funeral services at the Methodist church in Ann Arbor, Sabbath, Dec. 2, by the writer. {December 12, 1865 UrSe, ARSH 15.28-31} J. B. Frisbie. {December 12, 1865 UrSe, ARSH 15.31}

    Bro. Stephen Lawton of Mackford, Green Lake Co., Wis., aged 49 years, was killed by accident, at Pittsfield, Mass., the 13th inst. He had been East on a visit for several weeks, and was just returning home. He arrived in Pittsfield from the East on the 3 o’clock a. m. train. As it was very dark, he inquired the way to the American House, and was directed. He was soon heard and found upon the ground some eighteen or twenty feet below where he had evidently fallen from the wall near the Rail Road bridge, in North Street, and was horribly mangled, breaking one leg, an arm and fracturing his skull. He was taken to the American House, medical and procured, and every thing possible done to alleviate his sufferings, but he died about 10 o’clock, a. m. of the same day. After telegraphing to seven places, they at last found his residence. The heart-rending news reached his wife in Mackford the 16th, when she immediately sent for them to forward the body to her. They did so, and it arrived the 23rd. His friends felt relieved to see that he was well cared for and neatly laid out in a respectable coffin and ready for burial. He looked very natural with a heavenly smile upon his countenance. Sabbath we attended his funeral and sought consolation from the text, “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” 1 Cor. xv, 26. Sr. Lawton is left a lonely widow in this cold-hearted world, but sorrows not as those who have no hope. We have in the life and character of Bro. Lawton, unmistakable evidence of deep-seated, genuine, love-inspiring piety. He was a man respected and beloved by all who knew him. Evidence of this might be seen in the falling tear from a house full of all classes. May it make a lasting impression on their minds. One prominent man (not a professor,) said of him, that he thought no man he knew of was so well prepared to die. May we all live the life of the righteous, that our last end may be like his. {April 10, 1866 UrSe, ARSH 150.31}

    When we penned the lines published in Friday’s BULLETIN, announcing the usual order of services for Sabbath afternoon, little did we think that we should be called upon so soon to mourn the loss of one whom we have long loved as a dear personal friend and revered as a father in Israel. Yet such is the case; and now it becomes our sad duty to announce to our readers the death of Elder Geo. A. Irwin. Though delayed by serious heart difficulty while en route to the Conference, Elder Irwin was enabled by God’s blessing to resume his journey early last week and to reach the encampment in time for a few days of service before his sudden death from heart-failure at about half past one o’clock Friday afternoon. At the time of his decease he was in the Washington Sanitarium, an institution he had helped to bring into existence, and to the interests of which he had given some of the best days of his life. Providentially, Mrs. Irwin was with him, and also his only son, Prof. C. W. Irwin, and wife, all from California. Everything that loving hands and skilled medical aid could do was done, in his behalf, but all to no avail, and he quietly fell asleep in Jesus. The funeral was held at two o’clock Sabbath afternoon, in the main pavilion. The service was a simple one, yet deeply impressive withal. As a number of those with whom he had been intimately associated in official capacity and as a brother in gospel ministry, paid their last brief tribute of respect, the congregation of over three thousand united with them in mourning the loss of a prince in Israel, and in renewing their determination to exalt the principles of truth and righteousness that our fallen brother so untiringly upheld during his lifetime. {May 25, 1913 WASe, GCB 1364-6}



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